A Theology Thesis - This is a long one folks
Tonight, I had a very interesting theological discussion. Throughout the discussion, held with my father and step-mother, I presented my view of God and Christ and such, and together we came to a general consensus. Basically, it is entirely possible that everything about the Catholic faith is made up. Possible - just a possibility here, dont start freakin' out. We talked about how Jesus could have just been this great guy, kind of like gandhi, and as word of him spread, his actions and feats became more and more exaggerated. Ever played telephone? By the time the story is told on the other end of the line, it could be COMPLETELY different. My point is that the story of Jesus was passed on by oral tradition for years before it was written down, and how many retellings would it have gone through? By the time the gospels and New Testament were written, Jesus' "great guy" status could well have been exaggerated to "God", and his actions turned into miracles.
I am not here to shake people's faith. I just have serious trouble with the whole "existence of God" thing. Does this make me an atheist? Probably. It has occured to me many times that people simply invented God to ease the idea that they cease to exist after death. What proof is there that an after-life exists? Why is the idea of Heaven/Hell anymore believable than Reincarnation? What makes Christianity anymore of a legitimate religion than Buddhism or Hinduism? Is it because Christ came and enlightened us? I still think that maybe Christ was just this great guy who went around teaching people to be moral and helping people. I looked in the Bible tonight after hearing that Adam and Eve had a third child, Seth. I searched for him, and boom, there is Seth. I had never heard of him, after 13 years of religious instruction. It turns out that Adam lived to be 930 years old, while Seth lived a scant 912 years. While it occured to me that these are exaggerations, if it were not intended to be viewed fundamentally there would be no 18 year difference. Why couldnt the Bible just say "and both Adam and Seth lived to be very very old"? This evokes the question inside of me: "Is the Bible a work of fiction, or possibly a great distortion of facts"? The Bible makes no reference to the Fountain of Youth, so maybe Adam just lived extra long? Maybe since Adam was so close to God, God gave an extra 800 plus years to Adam and his progeny? "BLASPHEMER!!" some are saying. It just seems a bit unrealistic to me.
I have no problem with Christianity. If I can find an argument that convinces me of everything the Church teaches, I am open to it. I cannot go to school and ask any of my religion teachers (except Fr. Dan, which I intend to do tomorrow) why there are so many problems with this faith of theirs. They would look at my arguments, and have a mid-life crisis. Seriously, some of my religion teachers would not only have no answer for me, but they would be converted to MY way of thinking. A certain one in particular crosses my mind, and she couldnt answer even the simplest of problems from the people in my religion class. All she could do was reiterate her point and hope it in some way burned the lesson into their brain (this certainly does not apply to all the religion teachers at my high school). If this should happen, and I were to see one of the faithful ones, broken by what I believe, my faith would truly be beyond repair. To see a devout Catholic, and one with a degree in theology, unable to explain why it is that their faith is illogical on occasion, would be to lose hope in the doctrine entirely. This is why I could only approach someone who could match my arguments. I need someone with an intelligence level high enough to see what I see, and then tell me what they see.
I dont want the holy rollers to come knocking at my door, pointing out that the Prophets said Jesus was coming, and how many prophecies he fulfilled. I don't want people to come quote me a line from the Bible that completely defeats my argument. My problem is so basic, it lies in the Bible itself along with the most core teachings of christ. These are dogmas I am disagreeing with.
I also figured out why my basic foundation in Catholicism is so rocky, and as I said before, it lies in the Catholic school system. What percentage of school masses seem like Pep Rallies before they begin? Do the students attending really feel the reverance so applicable to a meeting with God? They don't, and it is because they have been numbed to it. Every week at my Catholic grade school, the whole school attended mass twice. Every week at my Catholic grade school, the whole school groaned twice. Nobody wanted to go. It was not a meeting with God for them, it was the observance of the teacher's will over the students. At my first Reconciliation and Communion, I had no idea the meaning of what I was doing. I was SEVEN. At seven years old, I'm learning basic math, and the good Catholics decide I am capable of understanding a great spiritual concept such as God residing in bread? Existing as bread? At my confirmation, I took the name Michael after the archangel (I always did like stoic characters), and stood for two meaningless hours with my beaming family. I almost considered not being confirmed, but the pressure from my family and friends all seemed to say: "Just do it, it will satisfy them". Going into the ceremony I knew it meant nothing to me, but hey, now I'm a TRUE Catholic. Like so many other people I know today, I was the embodiment of a spiritual facade.
Pep rallies at my high school involve everyone congregating together to celebrate a sport, while masses involve everyone congregating together to celebrate God. Which one receives more enthusiasm from its audience?
posted by Alex | 12:44 AM
I was considering possible comments, and I think "Go see Father Dan a.s.a.p." to be the best possible one.
Before i start typing... i wonder how long a comment can be?
Firstly, the whole age thing. I believe the oldest dude in the bible was over 1000 years before he died.... And no, Catholics do not believe that he was that old. Many theories have arisen to explain this, and the few i know, and the one i believe, follow:
1. Since man was intended to be immortal on earth before the fall, and this was not that long after the fall, the immensly long life was a little like a residual effect from man's inherent immorality. This is the view of literalists.
2. Others think that maybe the translations is actually something like seasons, but even then he would be around 250, which is still ridiculous.
3. I believe that the age was intended to show their wisdom, not their age. The old testament is not to be taken literally... at all. Under any circumstances. In that day the older one was the wiser he was considered to be. So by making the patriarchs of the Jewish religion so old, it would give more credibility to the religion as a whole. (and in all actuality, it is highly doubtful that adam, eve, cain, abel (able?), and seth even ever existed.)
Moving right along.
When you said your evidence or theories regarding christianity would not only shake people of the catholic faith, it would convert them, i could only shake my head and think "fool". Now i normally feel that you are a highly intelligent person, far more intelligent than myself in most areas. But if u think that your objections are new, faith-shaking, or even converting, you are a fool, and a naive one too boot.
The problem with most of catholocism is hypocrisy, or however you spell it. I do not call myself a catholic because i have come to realize, mainly through Fr. Dan, that to call myself catholic would be an actual slam against the faith. And that is where the problem lies. So many people call themselves catholic. Why? Because they go to mass on sundays and pray that they are gifted with money every night? Because they say they believe this and that? That is the problem.
If every Catholic acted Catholic, you would not have these questions. Mrs. Schwab, the teacher i believe you were referring to, is a few cards short of a full deck.
When have you seen a catholic teacher who talks of the faith with intensity and spirit? How often do you come across a catholic who speaks of Jesus Christ in an aweful tone? These are the reasons Catholocism is shaky.
All religions have contradictions, Catholocism being no exception. The bible was written by man, for man. It is intrinsically flawed because of that reason. The old testament is spiritually sound, but technically it is jank. The new testament is a completely different monster, and should be taken more literally.... most of the time.
I think you should have a nice talk with Fr. Dan. He will not try to convert you, i just know he will have answers to your questions.
theology is a funny thing my friend. what bothers me about father dan and about that class and about all that existential, philosophical bullshit that we have been reduced to reading each night, is that the whole nub and thrust of it comes down to something so ungodly simple. all that we are supposed to know is that good deeds will give us faith. this is IT. all that anyone is trying to say is that if you are a good person, good things will happen to you. and these people dont belive that buddha was a smart dude? didnt he CALL IT? honestly! THIS is what it all boils down to my friend. you can pretend to be god-like all you want...go to church, profess undying belief in a higher power aka God, but if you are an atheist and the most humane, kind, GOOD person that ever lived then you are better off than the people who CLAIM to have faith, but really prove that they don't. faith is an ACTIVITY, not a thought. at least that's what i believe. i also believe in taking the broader view of things...to incorporate other truths into my mind and mix it all up and come to my own conclusion. after all, if we are the diligent little students that fr dan thinks we are, he would know that it doesn't matter how many times we nod our heads at him; that the only things that matter are our actions: how we treat others and how we treat ourselves.
It appears that your class is a wee bit different than ours theresa, for almost 100% of our class is activly involved in discussions on a daily basis, and almost everyonve thouroughly enjoys it.
Your post really got me thinking. I consider myself Catholic, but when I really think about it, I dont really know why. Sure i go to Church every Saturday or sunday, but its not really my choice whether or not i go, my parents make me, and therefore i go. I was just thinking today, whether or not i will go to Church, when I am no longer being forced. And, that question still puzzles me. If I do go, will it be because its what i have done since I was born, or will it be because this is what i firmly believe in and i want to go? So when i read your blog, I was thinking how much Fr. Dans class has gotten everyone (even if they hate to admit it) to think a little more about their faith and beliefs. As for your uncertainity, I truly believe that nothing is certain. Thats the hard part. Sure, i believe God exists, but how can i be sure he does. Theres no clear cut answer. I am basically gambling all my trust and all my faith on God. Its hard for me to believe in something that supposedly has always existed. How can something always exist? It is mindboggling. And i am putting my faith and trust in God that one day I will find the answer to my questions. To be honest, I have never really doubted the existence of God, sure his existence boggles my mind, and leaves me confused, but I still believe in him. And the sad part is i dont know why. Father Dan asked us why we are Christians, and i couldnt really come up with an answer. Maybe its because that thought of him maybe not existing scares me. What is there in this world if he doesnt exist? Is there something beyond this world then? Theres just so many questions, to which there seem to be no answers.
I know, that im probably causing more confusion on your part than clarity, but I think that there is no clarity in this world. No matter how smart a person may be, they will never fully comprehend why we are here and what comes after this life. And just the fact that you are contemplating this, doesnt make you an atheist. As Fr. Dan said today, questioning and searching for answers is a good thing. You actually care. Oh, and as for going to communion at 7, I really think 7 is too young to go to Communion. I know i didnt know what I was doing, I was 7! i could barely remember how to tell time, and my teacher and parents are telling me that the bread that i can see really isnt bread, but Jesus who i cant see. Its hard enough for adults to understand this concept, let alone little kids.
Wow, I have written a lot, and feel like I have accomplished nothing but ask more questions that have no answers. I really hope that Fr. Dan can answer some of these questions for you, and some of these questions for me too. Honestly, I dont think there is one person out there Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Buddhist, whatever who doesnt have at least one question about their faith. Because in religion there are no answers only leaps of faith. (I believe our good friend Pascal said that one lol)
In response to Michael's commment:
After having Ms. Hinora (I was referring to her)as a teacher for 3 semesters, I do believe it would be entirely possible to break her faith. She was unable to answer so many questions in class that I became completely convinced that she had no idea what she was talking about. If she truly believes all she says, the foundation of her faith must be so thin as to be broken by a mere breeze. Think back to freshman (maybe even sophomore like me) year, and try to recollect ANYTHING she said that actually made you think. I cannot, and while I realize this is very harsh, it really all stems from the fact that all my religion classes except my current one have been POINTLESS. I'm just pissed off about the whole "religion in school" thing. Maybe these arguments alone wouldnt break her faith, but it feels like none of this even comes close to presenting my case. All of my feelings and thoughts on this subject put into one post would be...unrealistic (probably because certain points would only occur to me exactly at a time when I would forget them).
As for the age thing, I get that it isnt taken literally, but what's up with the 18 year difference? Was Adam 18 years wiser than Seth? Cmon. This isnt really a serious point anyway, but its like an annoying fly in my ear.
I must say your imagery with the whole breeze thing was cool... and as for religion in school? You go to a Catholic school, and thats part of it. If you dont like this, and im not trying to be as mean as this will sound, leave.
I think i'm the only non-catholic Christian in the commentary center today. And i'm afraid i agree, alex. For starters, Michael, get a grip. Catholicism is NOT as great as you think it is. The fact that it seems everything has to be defended 10xs over just means that there's something...off. And father dan, that man's lost his calibur in my book after a few weeks in that class. It's clear to me over analyzing things is detrimental to your spiritual and mental health. And i won't even talk about the whole priest issue. But what im trying to say (no matter how offensively you choose to take it) is that it appears that catholicism tries too hard to appear to have obtained perfection in their ideas of faith. Not to mention that through these 12 years, i see how any other ideas people have or want to bring into the situation get shut out automatically if they do not follow a certain decree. And why would you shut people out if you have nothing to prove or disprove?? One thing IS for certain, tho, going to a catholic school has slowly been eroding what faith i had. When i look back at freshman year and think to now, it almost scares me. I know God exists, i don't doubt it, but its just everything else along the way that makes me think that maybe the light at the end of the tunnel is nothing more than the devil waving a flashlight.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
AAAH, well I had this posted, but I accidentally deleted it. My apologies. Anyway, here is what I had written:
Wow, an old post, but I shall comment nonetheless.
Some of these comments are interesting, and I agree that several religion teachers are ultimately childlike in their knowledge of the faith at times. As for the substantiality of the post, appalling. I'm stunned to see such a profound case out of a mere high school student. I think your downfall lies in the fact that you're making preconceived judgements of what we 'know' and 'don't know'. I cannot 'disprove' your philosophy any more than I can physically confirm my own. I only seek to give you a little advice from a soul that's been through the fire and back again. Your existentially biased opinion seems to be from the perspective of a child left in the dark, blaming the parents for not flipping the light switch. Soon you will realize that your maturity shall oft surpass that of elders, and you must learn to flip the switch on for yourself.... The first step to getting out of the darkness is acknowledging the existence of light.
Erin, you make it sound like i was hand fed the ideas i set forth from my parents. in actuality, the conversation i had with my parents was initiated and almost entirely sustained by myself. I am not asking anyone to flip a switch for me. As you may have noticed, i have done a bit of thinking myself. I now regret the comments i made earlier about the teacher (i now doubt my argument would be so persuasive), but the core of my arguments remains in my heart. I still see massive flaws in the education system that exists today for young catholics and it annoys me thoroughly.
I still say it is retarded that we have to take religion classes that focus on busy work and not faith. If each relgion class i had was like the one in father dan's class, i would see the point in it....
And I wholeheartdely agree.
Father Dan, the one human being I wouldn't mind cloning. :)